As a follow-up to our previous post on getting yourself geared up for bigger and better things, today I’d like to talk about the thing we all dread: PuGs. Some of you may be lucky enough to be in guilds still running the introductory raids, but a lot of us (myself included) don’t have that luxury. Either the guild you’re in has left you behind or your guild or group of friends simply may not raid at all, but you’re looking to get your feet wet. Today, we’re going to be talking about the things you need to know to get into successful raid PuGs.
Patience is a Virtue
If PuGing is your only option, you would do well to resign yourself early on to the fact that it’s going to take time. Sometimes there won’t be PuGs forming for the content you want to do. Sometimes there may be groups, but it takes a long time to fill necessary roles (like tanks or healers). Other times there will be groups ready and raring to go, but they’re so strict about their invite policies that you’re afraid you don’t have a snowball’s chance in Florida of making it into the group. These things are going to happen, but don’t let that discourage you.
If you’re looking to get into raid PuGs, get yourself into LFG early and often. As soon as you log in, whether you’re actually ready to go or not, put yourself into LFG for the raid(s) you want to do. Chances are very good you’ll have plenty of time to get things done before you get a nibble.
While you languish in LFG, take time to get the essentials done. Do any necessary farming, such as farming up buff food. Visit the Auction House to refill your ammo and potions, flasks or elixirs. Once you’ve got the raiding necessities, move on to other daily chores such as your daily quests. Use the time you spend in LFG effectively. Don’t just sit in Dalaran all night waiting for someone to whisper you, that will only lead to disappointment and resentment at having wasted your entire night.
Know What You’re Getting Yourself Into
Whether you’ve actually been to the raids you want to do already or not, it’s important to know what you’re walking into. PuGs are a touchy thing already, and no one wants to be that guy standing in the poop because they didn’t know any better. Players who lead or run PuGs frequently communicate with each other, and a reputation for fail will put a swift end to your PuGing career. As such, you need to do everything you can to prepare for the encounters you’ll be seeing.
That means you need to research the bosses, thoroughly. Read the strategies, watch videos, participate in discussions and ask for tips or clarification from other players of your class that have seen the fight and know how it works.
StratFu is a good place to start if you’re looking to read up on basic fight strategies. BossKillers is another. As I mentioned in the comments of our previous post, if it’s videos you’re after (and you should be watching videos of the fights), TankSpot‘s Project Marmot is a great place to go. Of course, those videos are designed with tanks in mind; however, they give great explanations of the overall fight mechanics and a good view of the landscape of each fight. Another place to check for fight videos is Warcraft Movies. Set the proper filters when browsing their site, and you’ll find plenty of Hunter-centric raid videos. (You’ll want the All Time, Hunter, and Dungeon/PvE filters.)
You also need to know what kind of DPS you’re capable of, because often times that information is asked for in LFG. If you’re untested in a raid environment, give people an educated guess. Use the online DPS spreadsheet to get a vague idea of how you’d perform (have the spreadsheet automate your shot priority and raid buffs, and make sure you’re giving it an accurate number for your latency, etc). Keep in mind, the DPS figures on the spreadsheet tend to be higher than you’d actually see in combat because they assume a lot of perfection and don’t account for human error. For example, you may forget to refresh a debuff, use your trinkets, or you may just be in a fight that doesn’t allow you to stand still for very long. So, if you’re using the DPS spreadsheet to gauge your DPS, take off anywhere from 200-500 DPS from the figure they provide and you’re a lot closer to the number you’d actually see on Recount in a raid.
If you don’t want to fudge your numbers (and I don’t blame you–it’s hard to feel confident about guestimates), cozy up to a target dummie and get a feel for your solo DPS. Fully raid buffed, your solo DPS can skyrocket by anywhere from 500 to 1000 DPS. If you’re asked how much DPS you do before receiving an invite, be honest. Even if it means you might not get an invite. It’s better to be honest and not get an invite, than overestimate your performance and get booted mid-raid. It’s a waste of everyone’s time, and won’t endear you to anyone. If you only know your solo DPS, say so. If you’re giving a rough estimate of your raid DPS based on spreadsheet data, say so.
PuG Loot
When you do finally make it into a PuG, make sure to ask about loot rules before you even set foot inside the instance. Some groups may have unique rules that you need to be aware of. Sometimes certain pieces of loot will be reserved. Sometimes groups will have restrictions on the number of times you can Need roll during an instance. Sometimes certain items will be a “free” roll that anyone can roll on regardless of whether or not they’ve already gotten an item. Some groups Master Loot. Some groups prefer to /roll over using the built-in rolling functionality. These are all things you need to be aware of before the fighting starts, so there aren’t any fights of a different kind later on.
Additionally, you need to be aware of what loot drops in the instances you want to run. You need to know which bosses drop the items you want, so you can be prepared to make a quick decision: whether you want to roll or not. No one wants to stand around a corpse for twenty minutes while you figure out if those gloves are actually an upgrade or not. Know these things ahead of time.
Remember the Good and the Bad
Once you’ve made it into a few PuGs, keep a list of the players you’ve had a good time raiding with and the ones that you just didn’t jive with. Chances are good that those players PuG as a habit, and you’ll want to keep an eye out for them.
If you make it into a really good group and have a lot of fun, ask those players if they PuG on a regular basis and if you might join them again some time. Write down their names or add them to your friends list for future reference.
Likewise, groups that you just have a miserable time with or don’t accomplish much are probably in the same boat. They PuG frequently, and you’ll want to remember them so you don’t make the same mistake twice.
Be Polite
Whether the group you’re in is awesome or made entirely of fail in a tube, be polite. Remember, each time you enter a PuG, it’s your one chance to make a good first impression on people. Behave like you would if you were going over to someone’s house for a visit. Don’t yell at people for making mistakes. Often times, it’s their first time in the instance (just like it may be for you) and they just need time to get a feel for things. If things continue to go badly, let someone know before you leave, thank them for the opportunity to run with them, and quietly leave. Don’t make a fuss. Don’t yell and storm off in a huff.
If the group you’re in does well, thank them for letting you tag along. If you have any questions about the run–for example, if anyone has any tips for you, or if they’re going to be running again, ask them. More often than not, PuGs tend to disband fairly quickly once the job’s done, so you may not have an opportunity to chit-chat. If that’s the case, send a whisper to the group leader asking if they have a spare moment to answer questions you have. If they’re busy, respect that and leave them be. Simply thank them, ask them to keep you in mind next time they form a group, and leave it at that. If they do have time for a pow-wow, don’t flood them with questions. Keep it brief and to the point, and let them dictate the pace of the conversation.
Accept Reality
Even though there are more raid PuGs going now than there has ever been in the past, you need to accept that you may not get into a PuG every night. Have back-up activities planned so that you’re not feeling like your time was wasted. If you don’t get into a raid within an hour or so of joining LFG, think about doing some Heroics instead.
While the majority of raid PuGs these days have a fairly high success rate, not all of them will. Sometimes you’ll find groups of under geared folks that, like yourself, are still working and learning. Other times you’ll hit the jackpot and ToC-geared groups will blast their way through the raids you’re looking to do, raining loot down from the heavens while you scramble to loot your emblems. It’s a mixed bag, and that’s the price you pay to PuG. Know that going in, and you’ll find the experience a lot less frustrating. Keep an open mind.
Communicate With Your Guild
If you’re in a guild, whether they raid or not, you need to find out how they feel about your spending a lot of time PuGing. Some guilds may not care, while others may make a big stink about it–especially if you’re successful. Find out ahead of time how your guild will react to your new found independence. If your guild’s against the idea, find out why and explain how you feel. If there are other members of your guild hoping to do the same thing, try to coordinate with them and get them involved in the process.
PuGing can be fun and rewarding, or it can make you want to tear your hair out. Today, we’ve talked about some of the things you can do to help ease your way into the world of PuGs. Not every story will have a happy ending, but each will provide you with valuable experience you can use to make you an even more valuable asset to any group you join. If you’ve got more advice for folks looking to join raid PuGs, share it in the comments! If you’ve got any grand success or horror stories about raid PuGs, we wanna hear about that too!
Happy Hunting!
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The best thing to do for getting a DPS estimate, imho, is to do an easy heroic run — UK, or something like it — and use that as a starting point. If someone asks for DPS, say “2200 in heroics” or something like that. In practice, I find that in a 10-man, I gain about 1000 dps over my heroic DPS, and in a 25-man, I gain about 2000, each depending on buffs/debuffs, but I wouldn’t go with that estimate; a raid leader will be able to tell how you’re doing based on heroic DPS.
Note that a lot of PUGs these days, even for things like Naxx, are ‘badge runs’: groups that want to run through the content very quickly. What this means for a new raider is that:
1. It will be a faster-paced run, with less fight explanation. As a first run, a ‘badge run’ will probably be painful for anyone who has not experienced the raid before.
2. If they’re looking for a lot of people still, there’s a good chance you’ll get gear-checked out of the running. Don’t feel offended, just keep looking.
3. If they’re just looking for a single DPS, they’re likely going to be able to carry you easily. Running a Naxx-25 has always had a fair amount of flexibility for carrying a couple DPS, but in a recent Naxx 25 “badge run”, we had a new 80 doing < 1000 DPS, and no one really cared, because he was easily carried by the group. (Someone did whine, and basically got told "So what?" I responded, since I was top DPS, he could have 1000 of my DPS and everyone could stop whining. :p)
Things that make a more successful PUG:
* Raid leaders that do it regularly. Some groups do weekly PUGs, and these are the type that have fight explanations down pat, and know how to help organize with someone new.
* Guild runs, looking to PUG a couple extra. More common as it comes up towards a reset, these are usually the most successful — You're basically joining up for a guild run. However, you're not going to have as much margin for error in sucking, and you're more likely for people to remember you as someone who sticks out. (I don't remember any of the people in most of my Naxx 25 pugs, but the guild I filled a spot in Ulduar-25 for, I still get invites to random VoA and so on.)
10-man raids are less chaotic, and usually have lower 'gear check' levels. However, they leave less margin for error — one of the DPS screwing up is going to put a strain on everyone. 25-man runs, in addition to giving better loot, are going to have more room for people to make up for a couple bad or undergeared players.
Install Vent, and you may want to install TeamSpeak as well. These programs will help you get connected over voice with the group. (No one uses the in-game voice client.)
Gear isn't everything. Gear Score doesn't matter. I would recommend *not* installing it until you've gone through raiding for a while: the values it gives you are not going to help you out in any way. (GearScore has some minor value as evidence that you're going to have to pull more of your weight: my VoA PUG at 6am was all in the 3000s, and none of them pulled more than 2k DPS, which was a problem. I left after 3 wipes. However, a 2500 GS druid healed a Heroic Trial of the Champion without blinking an eye, in half greens, having just dinged 80 earlier that day. Player skill is much more important than GearScore.) I think that installing the gearscore addon lets other people check your gearscore without being able to inspect you; this makes it easy for them to ignore your potential skill ("I can do high DPS even in crappy gear!") by skipping over you in LookingForGroup.
Do get Pawn, and get a Pawn setup from the hunter spreadsheet set up in your pawn client; being able to have, for example, negative scoring on spellpower will make sure you never misread and roll on loot that you shouldn't be touching. It also gives you a quick eyeball so you can say "Oh, this piece is worlds better than this other piece, I definitely want to use my main spec roll on this."
Install recount. Don't worry about the raw numbers: worry about how you do relative to how you do in other instances, and how you do from fight to fight. Especially use it to compare how you did on your *last* naxx-10 pug to this week's — getting better as you get to know the fight is pretty much a requirement for progressing in raid content. Keep it closed during fights, and open it afterwards to figure out how you did, but don't overanalyze during the raid, and DO NOT POST METERS TO /raid unless explicitly asked by the raid leader. (Which will probably never happen.) You may want to record combat logs (/combatlog will turn on a log; sites like wowmeteronline.com and others will let you upload them) so that you can look back after a fight and find out what you were doing right or wrong. (Was Fire Resist aura only up for 40% of the Koloarn fight? You were standing too far from the pally. Were you standing near enough to the MM hunter to pick up Trueshot Aura? etc. I found my DPS on Ony p1 dropped by 20% at one point compared to a previous pull… and found out that it was because I was standing on the opposite side from the other hunter, and I lost a big chunk of DPS from it.)
I think that's all I've got at the moment, but I'm sure I'll come up with more.
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Just wanted to add another point. If you’re trying to pug into raids (5-mans not so much), it’s a good idea to have both Ventrilo, and Teamspeak installed, even if you don’t have a mic. This way you can hear any instructions the leader of the raid might have, and usually, you’re better off to just listen, instead of talking anyway. Type your questions to the leaders, let them respond how they choose. I can speak from experience, I have seen people kicked from raids because they didn’t have these programs. They’re lightweight, and simple, and the best way to set them is in ‘push to talk’ mode. That way no one is listening to you breathe, what’s on the TV, or whatever else is going on in the background.
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One of the minor problems I had was that I self-geared myself clear into heroics from soloing (at least be.imba says there’s no point in non-heroic 5 man content, anyway), so I tend to have to go with the brief descriptions on wowwiki and generalize about the fights. I.e. if it’s a tank and spank, a “don’t stand in the fire” fight, a dragon fight, etc. Unfortunately as hunters, I think we tend to get complacent because we don’t have to worry about half of the nastiness that the melee crowd gets. Probably the biggest error and least highlighted thing that I’ve run across is how you need to run up with the tank when you start the fight with Anub’arak, coz otherwise you get to sit there lookin’ stupid for the whole fight. Wowwiki needs more straightforward detail like that.
Now I just wish LFG were slightly less awful, so I could pick and choose instances, instead of the list of 6 or 7 that it gives me. Maybe with the cross-realm LFG, hopefully. But posting a simple DPS LFG (heroic daily) usually works, if it’s time consuming. And you’re dead right about reputation – mine seems to be increasing the more groups I pug with and keep up with. Most of the time I’m just cruising along trying to follow the tank, but it works. And if you’re new to 80, relax, there’s plenty of craftable gear and argent tournament soloable gear to get you to respectable levels. Take advantage of sites like http://gear-wishlist.appspot.com/ and http://femaledwarf.com/ to get an idea of what you can acquire without ever setting foot in an instance.
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I’ve been a frequent PuG’er since UBRS was a 15 man dungeon. This blog post would be an amazing place for everyone to not only prepare themselves for a great PuG experience, but to also learn how to contribute to a PuG in ways that do not involve pixels (Be Polite and Accept Reality.)
Another huge part of contributing to a successful PuG is asking questions! Don’t be afraid to ask, because in the end, it will benefit yourself, as well as the entire raid, if you learn from a question that you asked.
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I’ve noticed on my old server, Uldum, PuGs have become even more scarce, but they are there.
One thing I woul dlike to note, the way WCM has itself set up now, most of those videos require premium membership to stream
We really need something akin to a quality Hunter video database. Something that includes quality strategy videos for boss fights, or techniques. Not a dump for low-res PvP videos with screaming emo-rock over it.
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Pingback: Lassirra’s Advice on PuGing « /AFK Auto Shot - A WoW Hunter Blog
I hope you don’t mind, but I’m linking this post on the front page of my blog. It’s precisely the post I was TRYING to convey succinctly and failed at.
Fitz
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Hehe! Be my guest. Glad you enjoyed it.
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Good article and thanks for the terrific advice everyone! I will hit level 70 tonight on my first WoW toon (just started playing recently) and so far thinking about raids can be overwhelming at times. What is the proper raid etiquette? How do I get geared so that I can succesfulyl raid? etcetera etcetera etcetera. This article and your comments help to put things into perspective for the newer hunters imo and I now look forward to raiding more than ever!
Eithorn
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