By now, you’re no doubt aware that we Hunters have some nerfs coming to us in 3.0.8 (and I’ve yet to see a rational explanation for it being 3.0.8). The upcoming changes have already been discussed in-depth, both on the forums following Ghostcrawler’s announcement, and on many other blogs, so I won’t bore you with the details. If by some chance of fate you’ve been living under a rock for the past couple weeks, or just aren’t that in-tune with the community at large, I recommend you go read the announcement straight from the lips (fingers?) of Ghostcrawler before you proceed. Following, you’ll find my own thoughts on the various changes.
Beast Mastery
First, long-time readers know that I’ve never been big on BM. Sure, I tried it for a bit in college and it was fun for a little while, but I inevitably came to my senses and returned to my usual specs: Survival or Marksmanship. I’ve long been a Survival enthusiast/sympathizer (it depends on the state of the tree, really), and I’ve always enjoyed the “I don’t need no stinking pet” MM mindset, so seeing the BM tree get bludgeoned to death with the nerf bat really has very little practical effect on my game-play. As such, I don’t see much point in QQing about it.
But, I can muster some form of mildly feigned sympathy for those that find themselves on the chopping block, which is an attitude that is considerably enhanced by our shared pitfalls in the form of general ability nerfs. It’s never fun watching a spec you’ve played for ages and loved getting gutted like a fish (as a long-time SV Hunter, I know precisely how that feels), but over the four years I’ve been playing this game, I’ve come to understand the ebb and flow of nerfs and buffs as an inevitable matter of course.
As someone who’s played Survival off and on since day one, I can understand quite well how BMers feel. But at the same time, I’ve watched my favored tree, the red-headed step child of the Hunter talent pantheon, be buffed, nerfed, buffed, nerfed, nerfed again, buffed, and nerfed to holy hell and back again so many times that I can’t help but feel that this state of affairs is only temporary.
I also have to admit to feeling a sense of perverse satisfaction in seeing the Beast Mastery tree on the receiving end of a supreme hatchet job. BM Hunters have been smug and complacent long enough.
But enough of the BM tale of woe a la 3.0.8. What of the general changes coming to the Hunter class at large?
Volley.
I can totally understand why they’re nerfing Volley. After watching the 10k+ Volley crits flood my screen in quick succession while running H-Naxx, I couldn’t help but think it was only a matter of time before the afterglow of love-making to this poor neglected ability paled into the horror of a one night stand.
In every heroic raid I’ve done (and that would be all of them at this point), I’ve found some excuse to use Volley. In Naxx, there were plenty of large groups of mobs to clear. In OS, there were the packs around the outer rim to clear to get to the drakes. In Eye of Eternity, Volley was great for dealing with the low-flying mobs in phase 2 while running from shield to shield where getting adequate range was challenging. And in each of these scenarios, I would watch my DPS output skyrocket, taking me from 10th to 5th place on the DPS meter in a matter of moments.
Hardly seems fair, if you ask me. Which is not to say I didn’t think it was freaking awesome, but that it was simultaneously awesome and admittedly OP. Not to mention that the extreme motivation to use Volley so consistently frequently left me with increased repair bills from breaking my ranged weapon. That, I could easily have lived without.
Steady Shot?
This change is one I’m not as sold on as the Volley change. (Which is a vast understatement of my feelings on the subject. Stay tuned.) The Volley change strikes me as fair and rational; the Steady Shot change? Eh, not so much. Given that Steady Shot damage is mitigated by armor (which is a condition that is aided significantly by the liberal application of Armor Penetration), it’s not that impressive as a shot, by general standards. It’s got a quick cast and low mana cost, making it a great “bread and butter” shot for most rotations, but I haven’t felt that it’s damage was out of control by any stretch.
I’ve noticed 10k+ Volley crits, Kill Shot crits, and Chimera Shot crits, all of which (with the exception of Volley, as discussed above) seemed perfectly normal to me. I have not seen that kind of damage from Steady Shot. Not even close.
I do understand that the purpose of nerfing Steady Shot is to encourage Hunters to not use it exclusively, but to instead favor a mixture of several other shots. The problem, however, is that the other shots aren’t attractive enough, not that Steady Shot is too powerful. It’s my belief that a general balancing of all our normal rotation shots is what is needed here, rather than a nerf to a shot that we rely so heavily upon for the majority of our damage output due to a simple lack of better alternatives.
Say, for argument’s sake, that we remove Steady Shot altogether. What are we left with? Aimed Shot, Arcane Shot, Multi-Shot, our stings, and spec-based shots (like Explosive Shot, Chimera Shot, and Silencing Shot). That gives us a total of up to 5 different shots to choose from for our normal rotations.
Now, stings we already use anyway because they’ve recently become actually useful. Arcane Shot is another shot that is typically a corner-stone to most rotations, so we haven’t really changed anything in our rotation yet.
Aimed Shot is seldom in rotations because it’s damage is insufficient for it’s mana cost and it’s “mortal strike” debuff is seldom helpful, so unless that changes it still won’t be featured any more prominently than it already is in most rotations. Again, no change.
Multi-Shot is moderately useful in boss fights or trash clears that can support AoE damage, but it’s really only worth the mana cost if you’re spec’d into Marksmanship. From most of the “guess and check” I’ve done in DPS spreadsheets, throwing Multi-Shot into my rotation more often than not lowers my DPS output, and since no changes to this shot are forthcoming, I don’t see it being added to consistent rotations any time soon. Again, no changes so far.
Then we have spec-based shots (of which, technically, Aimed Shot is one): Chimera Shot and Explosive Shot. Explosive Shot was nerfed sufficiently before 3.0 went live that it’s no longer feasible as a regular rotation shot, particularly due to it’s shared cooldown with Arcane Shot. Chimera Shot, on the other hand, is extremely useful and is already featured in rotations for those that have it. So, again, nothing has changed.
Nerfing Steady Shot isn’t going to make other shots more attractive. Changing the mechanics of the shots Blizzard wants us to use more frequently, however, will. For example, take Aimed Shot off Multi-Shot’s cooldown, and likewise for Explosive and Arcane. But ah, therein lies the problem. By doing so, Hunters would become OP in PvP combat (which is, apparently, the focus of the game now?).
That, my friends, is the crux of the issue. By making our abilities more rational and effective for varied PvE applications, we become OP in PvP. By balancing our PvP performance, our PvE damage output is nerfed. And so, Blizzard needs to decide which is the lesser of two evils; or rather, which is the actual focus of the game they’ve designed. (Anyone else remember when PvP was all but non-existent in this game?)
Aspect of the What?
And, oh yeah, Aspect of the Wild is now a raid-wide buff. (It’s that nature resistance buff we used in SSC, when they’d shuffle us into the Healer groups on the way to Hydross.)
F#@k-a-doodle-doo!
But, since we’re on the subject, I’m interested to know how your raid group decides which Hunter to gimp by making them throw this aspect up instead of Hawk/DHawk/Viper. Do your Hunters draw straws? Yell “1-2-3-NOT IT!”? Rock, paper, scissors?
Ramble Wrap-Up
So, in summary, here are my (vastly abbreviated) feelings on the upcoming changes to Hunters in 3.0.8:
- BM Changes: Lawlz! Sux2BU!
- Volley Changes: Who didn’t see that coming?
- Steady Shot Changes: /headdesk
- AotWild Changes: Uh, wha?
- Everything else: Meh.
What’s your take on it?
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Sux2BME, huh? That’s just bullying, woman!
I remember back in SSC our Hunters used to volunteer to be the AotW bitch. But now I forsee them having to be prodded with hot pokers to get them using it.
As much fun as Volley was, myself, like everyone else and their dog (Gorilla?) understand why it’s getting a nerf bat to the face. /sulk
Eveything else – Meh
Now excuse me while I wander off casting levitate on unsuspecting party members.
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Hey, there’s a lot of BMers that deserve the bullying!
I have never seen a Hunter volunteer to be AotW bitch. The drop in personal DPS from not having Hawk up was such a blow to their e-peen that no one wanted to do it. Invariably, I always ended up being the one to do it. “Lass, you’re SV anyway. You take it for the team by default. What’s one more sacrifice?” Lol
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Yeah, they seemed to do it for some sort of invisible DKP our raid leaders were probably giving out
Either that or the voice of our female RL asking who it was gonna be in that “sultry” tone got them volunteering..
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I’ve been a BM hunter since the beginning of TBC. While I’ve enjoyed life on top of the dps meters, I’m not going to freak out over this nerf. Quite honestly, when I see pets criting for 3k+ and my SS doing as much, if not more, while only wearing TBC purples and Wotlk blues then I’m pretty sure something needs adjusting.
Do I like it? Absolutely not, but I also think it is a necessary evil. I’ve been seriously thinking of going back to MM anyway so meh.
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Totally agree with you Lass. Volley and using readiness to reset the BW cooldown were a bit OP. But steady shot?? Nerf to encourage us not to use it exclusively?? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a decent hunter just spamming steady shot (apparently that’s all a lot of other classes think we do). So now I’ve got a gimped SS and explosive shot in my rotation. Wunderbar.
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@Heal — Hey, if the lady knows how to get what she wants, ya can’t fault the schlubs that fall for it.
@Zubgrub — I recently switched from my MM/SV hybrid build to a full MM build and saw a huge jump in my dps (but, that’s as I expected). I really like Chimera Shot, though. It’s sting-refreshing mechanic makes things a bit simpler, and does a significant amount of damage. I fully support your thoughts of jumping off the BM bandwagon!
@Fountainhead — First, serious bonus cool points for using “Wunderbar”. That made my day! And yeah… the Steady Shot nerf was… retarded, to say the least. WTB buffs for our other shots rather than nerfs to shots that don’t need them, PST.
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The steady shot change is because they want to nerf Hunter pve damage without hurting pvp too much. Steady Shot is more of a pve ability than pvp. If a hunter gets to stand around and spam steady shot in pvp, then he’s already going to win.
Its also a trifling nerf imo. 20% to 10%?
The reality is that hunters are doing 50-100% more damage that equivalently geared rogues, mages, warlocks, etc. That’s a massive problem, and its not just from volley.
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Staying BM unless it gets completely destroyed because I much prefer the “fast-n-furious” BM playstyle over the others (which I have tried).
I’m actually excited for the nerf, this combined with mana reduction of Arcane Shot = more for us BMers to do!
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I did 4259 dps on Patchwerk last night as BM spec. (not great, my new spec turned out to be less effective than I hoped). The other BM hunter I was with did 4299 dps.
One of our mages topped the dps chart with 4546dps on the same fight.
Now maybe I could have squeezed some more dps out by stacking call of the wild,especially if I had brought a third BM hunter along. However after we get nerfed that mage will be doing the same or higher dps, and I… won’t.
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I’m staying BM because I like my pets being useful.
The only other spec I would do is Survival.
On a side note…
Explosive shot is being tested on the PTR with some changes…
For example, no more AoE, but increased base damage to 560 and increased scaling.
I hope it works out, as that would make survival happy.
And as far as mages go, they’ll get theirs soon enough…
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I’m picking up what you’re laying down, Lass.
I’m a survival hunter, always have been. BM is the only tree I haven’t dabbled in, mainly because it seems like EVERYONE is BM. I considered switching when WotLK dropped so I could tame exotics, but I was too lazy…laziness ftw! Besides, I love hearing the snickers from other hunters in my guild when they realize I’m survival. I can’t wait for them to ask me about my build after they ditch BM, haha!
I’m kinda bummed about Steady Shot as it is a nice part of my shot rotation, but I’m still going to use it. And kill shot having reduced cooldown can only be a boon. Its all about adapting, right?
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Geez, another Survival Hunter cheering because Beat Master is getting “nerfed”. I play Beast Master because, like Klinderas, I like my pet to be useful.
What a lot of people don’t realize is that the change that is killing BM Hunters is not the pet nerfs, but the Steady Shot nerf.
Marks gets Aimed and Chimera Shot, Survival gets Explosive Shot. What does BM get to mix into the rotation? Nothing, except maybe Aimed, but like you said, it is too inefficient to use. That gives us Steady Shot and Arcane Shot.
Nerf our pets? OK, I see your point. But nerfing the shot we are forced to use 3/4 of the time simply because we have nothing else to use?
Yeah, the SS nerf is hitting all Hunters over the head, but BM is taking an additional kidney shot from the pet nerfs.
I will continue to play BM because I love my pets. I just hope that Blizz realizes they have went overboard before the changes leave the PTR.
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@Santyn, I don’t think anyone was “cheering” the BM nerf…last I checked ALL hunters are getting nerfed a bit. I was speaking from my experience with the other hunters in my guild.
All hunter pets are useful, they’re just a little more useful to a BM hunter. I send my pet in and pew pew like the rest of us, I love my pet…but when it comes down to me or him dying, he’s expendable.
As Lassira said, “I’ve watched my favored tree, the red-headed step child of the Hunter talent pantheon, be buffed, nerfed, buffed, nerfed, nerfed again, buffed, and nerfed to holy hell and back again so many times that I can’t help but feel that this state of affairs is only temporary.” Besides, the new patch hasn’t rolled out…let’s not count those chickens before they hatch.
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“Its also a trifling nerf imo. 20% to 10%?”
That’s just the portion of our attack power that gets added to the shot. In reality, it’s about a 30% nerf to the shot depending on how much AP you have.
It’s primarily going to affect us as we start to progress and get higher AP- it will not scale as well as other abilities.
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Okay, but… HAVE YOU SEEN OUR NEW DETERRENCE??!
Freaking awsome.. Bubble
Erm.. okay.. it’s more like OP again…
Seems like Blizz wants to maintain our pvp performance, since although our shots are nerfed, we got a good spell against casters and some melee classes.
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First, I love the discussion going on here. It’s precisely what I had hoped to see.
Second, yeah, I’ll admit, I am somewhat cheering on the BM nerf. But I’ll be the first to admit that I do so only out of my own petty feelings about a tree I’ve never particularly cared for, and got tired of hearing about.
I understand that there are several reasons why people like BM. Foremost among them is it’s admittedly superior DPS output, and second being that people genuinely just like the pet buffs the tree provides.
I fully support people playing the specs they like to play (this is something I’ve advocated since day one, as long-time readers know), but what I don’t enjoy are smug BM hunters that lord their performance over players of other specs. It’s an attitude that isn’t overly prevalent in the blogosphere, but I’ve seen it plenty in-game (even in my own guilds), and don’t particularly care for it. So, am I glad to see BM hunters taken down a peg or two? Absolutely!
But, as I said, these are admittedly my own feelings on the subject, which stem from personal interactions with other players, not necessarily the community at large. The way I see it, though, is that I’m human and thus not expected to be perfect, so a little display of emotion is appropriate from time to time.
Regarding the general Hunter nerfs, as I’ve said, the Volley nerf was something I think everyone saw coming. As for Steady Shot? Sure it effects BM, but I don’t think it more so than any other spec. As I mentioned above, I don’t think most Hunters have any better alternatives, with the possible exception of Chimera Shot, so we’re all in the same boat there.
Overall, I haven’t noticed Hunters doing significantly higher DPS than equivalently geared players of other classes. In most 25-man raids I’ve attended, a BM Hunter has been 1st (which is nothing new) with a Shadow Priest, Ret Pally and Rogue following, and another BM Hunter. The top 5 DPS appear to be about on-par with each other, so saying Hunters are OP in general, I think, is a bit misleading and may not necessarily be the case. Of course, there are tons of factors to consider when comparing DPS output. Not least of which are players’ skill, latency, spec, and so forth.
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Now as a long time BM fan, I’m morally depressed over the patch notes. But like you said I agree with volley being extremely OP, I just think cutting steady shot in half is a tad over the top. Cutting pve dps only hurts the raid as the whole, which i don’t know why the blues would do that to us, but oh well live and let live I guess
/sigh
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I’ve been a longtime fan of BM, having been one since my mid-30s, and I just recently switched Marks with little to no regret. Granted, the switch was justified by constantly trying to camp the Spirit Beast that every other hunter and their mom seemed to have already, which ended up not really being too big of an issue to me since my Schrodinger does just fine, but still. In any case.
I was a little sad to see BM get nerfed, but then again, I’d probably be more worried about it if I were one of those people that always tries to be #1 on the DPS charts. I crit like crazy with Marks, making my trinket proc every minute or so, though I could do without the OOM thing (though Viper + Chimera = win).
As for AotW…with my previous guild we didn’t have a choice, really. A hunter was in each group, told to put AotW on, and that was that. Boooooo.
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I leveled from 1-60 as BM, had to change to Survival for our MC raids (because other hunters in the guild weren’t so good on the pet controls so it was banned guild wide) stayed that way from 60-70 then changed back to BM for raiding at 70. Stayed BM from 70-80 as Im just enjoying it more. How these changes actually affect me will only be seen when the patch is put on. Overall, I’m taking a “meh” approch to this.
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As much as I enjoyed my BM hunter, I decided to reroll.
Hunters were not OP, it was a question of gear-scaling. And right now many are closing the gap very fast. Moreover, many mages, fury wars and dks are already doing more dmg than BM hunters. And guess what, along with BM much needed nerfs, dk’s and fury warrs are getting buffed. Balance indeed.
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