First, sorry for being MIA the past few days. The holiday weekend took its toll and I spent most of it incommunicado. (No wi-fi, no mobile reception, nada.) I had a great time, though, so I suppose I can be forgiven just this once, huh? 
I hope everyone else likewise enjoyed their weekend!
With that out of the way, lets get back to business, shall we?
In my last article, Casual by Circumstance, I went on somewhat of a tangent regarding my experiences in the game over the past year or so. When I began writing the article, I had no intention of having it turn out quite the way it did. My original intent was actually to discuss what forces people who would otherwise be “hardcore” players into a casual style of play. Instead, as I was writing the article, I ended up speaking from a more personal standpoint, and actually airing a few grievances I’ve had in the past. The reason that article “went to press” the way it did was because I felt that the meandering path my mind inevitably took might be worth sharing, if for no other reason than to get it off my chest. As it turns out, that was the right decision. A lot of folks who hadn’t commented before took that opportunity to do so, to share with me (and others reading along) their own similar feelings and experiences. While I had never imagined that my story was in any way unique, it did surprise me just how many “me too!”s there actually were, and I’m sure there are many more out there who also feel the same, but haven’t spoken up.
That being the case, I felt it was worth the time to continue the dialogue.
There is so much that could be said on the subject of Casual vs Hardcore game-play. Its actually difficult to know where to start, and what issues to touch on first. I’m flying by the seat of my pants mostly, so bear with me. (Or at least buckle up. There may be turbulence.)
Why So Casual, Charlie Brown?
As I started to touch on in my last article before I got all self-involved and such, there are a lot of reasons why someone might be casual. They may not have the time to devote to a more “hardcore” approach to the game. They may not have the desire to be “hardcore”. (Its true! Some people do genuinely just enjoy questing or farming!) Or, like me, they may just not have the means to be hardcore.
If you’re happy being casual, if you enjoy just chilling with your circle of friends and family and have no desire or time to commit to anything else, you might as well stop reading now. However, if like me, you long for something more… read on.
I’m a Hardcore Wannabe
I want to crunch numbers like the big boys. I want others to see my guild tag and tremble in awe. I want to be envied. I want to see every last boss fight this game can throw at me, and I want to be able to say things like “Oh, Illidan? Yeah, he’s easy once you get the hang of it.” and mean it. I want to conquer. Games represent a challenge to me. I want to meet that challenge head-on, and go as far as I can go.
Sound familiar?
Know What You Want
Before you can ever get what you want, you have to know what that is. You have to have a defined goal. Just saying “I want to be hardcore” or “I want to raid” is not enough. Not if you want to be the best.
Part of my problem, I’ve come to realize, is that I didn’t have specific goals in mind from the get-go. Oh sure, I had a lot of specific personal goals. But I didn’t know, specifically, what I wanted from the rest of my experience. Because of that, opportunities slipped by, and now I’m in a dead end and bored out of my mind.
This Guild Sucks!
Another part of my problem is that I believed that, once I figured out specific things to work towards, I could mold the guilds I was in to fit that need. WRONG! Wrong, wrong, wrong! If you join a guild, and you find that they’re not doing the things you want to do, Leave. Immediately. Unless you have some other reason not to leave that is more important than your goals in-game, run screaming. Run away! Find another guild.
You cannot change a guild you join.
If you join a guild that’s already established a member base and they’re just recruiting a few extra folks, if you have any doubt right from the start, then that guild is not the place for you. That guild will not change to suit you. Never, never think otherwise. I don’t care how many members and officers tell you they want what you want. If they aren’t already doing what you want, they never will. Why? Because if they had wanted what you want bad enough, they would already be doing those things without your insistence. Stop pretending otherwise. Stop trying to convince yourself, for whatever reason, that things will change. That things will “get better”. You need to decide which you want more: a bunch of buddies in-game to chat with, or a guild that will fulfill your desire to progress. Its possible to maintain friendships with people that aren’t in the same guild you are, so this is only a crutch. This mindset will ultimately make you miserable if progression is truly what you desire. Let it go!
Who’s With Me?!
Sometimes you’ll find yourself in a guild that is going nowhere. Its happened to me. I’m sure its happened to you. Now, they may not be going nowhere, but they’re certainly not going anywhere quickly or efficiently. Otherwise, you wouldn’t be pissy about it. Amirite?! There are bound to be others within the guild that feel the way you do. What do you do about it?
Some folks form a “mass exodus”, leave, and form their own guild. Sometimes this works, sometimes it crashes and burns. Mostly, it comes down to this: Only you know what you want. Only you can decide how to get it.
If others feel the way you do, set an example rather than staging a coup. Leave. Let others do the same if that’s truly what they want. Don’t drive a wedge between others. Explain why you’re doing what you’re doing. Don’t burn bridges, and don’t leave on bad terms. Thank whatever guild you’re in for allowing you to join in the first place. Explain before you leave what your concerns are, and why you’re not happy. Give leadership an opportunity to address your concerns before you drop a /gquit on their asses. Let them tell you, “You’re right, this isn’t the place for you” or “We’re in the process of making the changes you talk about. Give us more of a chance?”
Communication is key. Communicate with your guild leadership, other guild members, and yourself.
To get what you want requires commitment, dedication, and patience. Rome wasn’t built in a day. The best raiding guilds in the world have been around for months, even years. Be picky! If you decide to form your own guild, share your personal goals with prospective members, and explain to them that recruitment may take time, because you’re looking for quality, not quantity. Tell your members that you’re not willing to settle for second best, and that’s why you formed the guild in the first place!
I Want…
- I want a guild that is focused on efficient progression through raid content
- I want a guild that does not allow morons to linger
- I want a guild that has strong leadership; folks that know what they’re doing, know how to lead and organize, and know how to say “This is how its going to be, like it or not”
- I want a guild that enjoys PG-NC17 humor
- I want a guild that raids at least 3 nights a week, but no more than 5 nights a week (at least in terms of mandatory attendance)
- I want a guild that will not insist on using retarded boss strategies just because “they worked once”
- I want a guild where officers actually do stuff, and are not simply figureheads
- I want a guild that can clearly state their goals, and has a concrete plan for achieving those goals
- I want a guild with members that aren’t afraid to PuG if need be
- I want a guild that will value what I have to say, as long as its respectful, whether I agree with leadership or not
- I want a guild with people who are willing to work just as hard as I do to achieve their goals
- I want a guild full of quality players who know their class(es), know the encounters, and know what’s expected of them
This is what I want. This is what I have not been able to find.
I Don’t Want…
- A guild that recruits for raiding, and then doesn’t raid
- A guild that will harbor idiots for the sake of being nice
- A guild that will recruit anyone, without any real standards for admittance
- A casual guild
- A guild full of officers who don’t do… anything
- A guild with officers who think they are infallible
- A guild full of people who can’t take a joke
- A guild full of people who can’t understand and/or appreciate sarcasm
- A guild with people who ask things like “What’s a flask?”, or “Should I reincarnate?” after a wipe has been called
- A guild with 30,000 hunters, all of whom want raid spots, and the guild still hasn’t closed recruiting on hunters
- A guild that will not allow you to raid with more than one toon
- A guild whose raid leader has to read off WoWWiki for boss strategies during the raid, because they couldn’t be bothered to do their homework ahead of time
These are the things I’ve been able to think of so far. I’m sure I could come up with a longer list if I really thought about all the dumb shit I’ve seen in the past year or so.
Moral of the Story
Know what you want, and know how far you’re willing to go to get it. Always make sure that “the juice is worth the squeeze”. Don’t burn bridges along the way. Express yourself. Make your desires known, to you as well as to your guild. Don’t try to change guilds, change your circumstances instead.
As soon as I start taking my own advice, I’ll let you know how it turns out. 
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You said it best, Ditto!
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Wow, that wish list is almost exactly like mine! I actually just changed guilds because of it (and servers) only to find the guild was not at all as organized as advertised!! $25 down the drain…
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I can add to the lists:
“I Want…”
A Guild that isn’t afraid to replace someone who causes repeated stupid problems in a raid.
“I Don’t Want…”
A Guild that doesn’t plan what raid they’re doing ahead of time. (If you have to log on and ask “What/where are we going tonight”, that’s poor pre-planning.)
A Guild whose members stop raiding certain raids because “They’ve got all their gear already.”
The Wild Ones last blog post..Now I’ve Gone And Done It…
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Fantastic post!
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Great post!
Most people know that to be successful, you look up to those who have been successful in the past. What many skip is to learn from those who have crashed and burned in the past.
None of your want’s and don’t want’s are new. What they do list is what makes a guild successful (your want list) or fail (your don’t want list).
More importantly, they serve as a checklist to see how well is a guild going to fare.
My current guild suffers from some of the don’ts listed here, and well, we haven’t progressed much. I stuck around because many were friends and I was mainly a PvPer/back up raider (translation: raided almost every day they raided because they didn’t had the “interested” people in).
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Have you ever considered starting a guild?
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Chandler — That is precisely why I haven’t transferred servers. I’ve certainly thought about it, but what you describe is exactly why each time I’ve ultimately decided against it. I’m just not comfortable with a monetary risk. Add to that the fact that a server transfer means giving up the friends I do have on Medivh, and its just not something I feel comfortable with.
Wild One — Excellent points!! I would agree on all counts, and I’m glad you mentioned these things.
Rav — One thing I would point out is this: these are things that make a raiding guild successful or not. For a casual guild, its a whole different kettle of fish.
(Semantics, I know.) 
Zepp — Actually, I have. (In fact, I’ve not only considered it, I’ve done it.) There are a number of problems with that, though. Most of the worthwhile candidates I already know are folks I wouldn’t want to “poach” from the guilds they’re already in (for a number of fairly obvious reasons). For recruits I don’t already know, there are a couple of problems: 1) I’m completely socially inept (you should know this by now!); and 2) Many refuse to be patient enough to let a new guild get off the ground. The problem with new guilds is that, unless you’ve already got a fair number of patient and committed friends in on the venture, you’re in for a rocky start. When you state your goals to recruits, they expect instant results, and bail when that doesn’t happen. Very few people are willing to wait, it seems, for me to recruit quality players that I would want to have around for the long haul.
Otherwise, I’d already be in the unenviable position of Guild Leader, I suspect.
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“Zepp — Actually, I have. (In fact, I’ve not only considered it, I’ve done it.) There are a number of problems with that, though. Most of the worthwhile candidates I already know are folks I wouldn’t want to “poach” from the guilds they’re already in (for a number of fairly obvious reasons). For recruits I don’t already know, there are a couple of problems: 1) I’m completely socially inept (you should know this by now!); and 2) Many refuse to be patient enough to let a new guild get off the ground. The problem with new guilds is that, unless you’ve already got a fair number of patient and committed friends in on the venture, you’re in for a rocky start. When you state your goals to recruits, they expect instant results, and bail when that doesn’t happen. Very few people are willing to wait, it seems, for me to recruit quality players that I would want to have around for the long haul.
Otherwise, I’d already be in the unenviable position of Guild Leader, I suspect.
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I already did the reply to your post on my blog @ Ardent Defender.
In my situation as well i remember starting a guild not too long ago. From the vast amount of time I PuGed as a Tank over time I knew many “Very Solid Players” that were good at their class. When I started my Guild one the things I didn’t want to do just like you was to “Poach” good players away from the guilds they were in and on progression content if they were already happy there.
The players that I recruited or often found wasted allot of my time by always wanting help for everything. Help for quest, help for Instance, help for run low level dungeon run thru’s and I got tired of it. They drained all my time and effort. Just like you I found as well new recruits are not very patient to wait around for a guild to grow especially when you have a emphasis on finding very good players which takes even much longer time compared to just finding someone that wants to join a guild. Finding quality players take time and lots of work and in a new guild people only see numbers in guild and just quit because they think its growing too slow for their own needs of wanting help and all else. So they run off to a guild with lots of players to they can get just that. I found all that frustrating so i eventually closed up my guild as it was wasting my own time and effort trying to find good quality players.
So yeah, I can relate!
Galohearts last blog post..Hardcore Casual: Lassirra Said It Best!
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None of your want’s and don’t want’s are new. What they do list is what makes a guild successful (your want list) or fail (your don’t want list).
I don’t agree that Larissa’s want list defines a successful guild and her don’t want list defines an unsucessful guild. And Larissa didn’t say that, either. What they define is a guild that would match her goals, which, in the end, is what everyone wants from their guild. This defines not success, but rather a mind set. Success is defined by a guild that acheives it’s goals, to what degree they achieve those goals. Not by the goals themselves.
Flaimes last blog post..Authenticator finally shipped!
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[...] The Hunter’s Mark http://www.thehuntersmark.net/2008/07/02/casual-by-circumstance/ and the follow-up http://www.thehuntersmark.net/2008/07/08/more-casualhardcore-musings/ [...]
I certainly can see where you are coming from. I know the situation. I wish I could be more of a “hardcore” gamer, but when it comes down to it, I dislike the idea of loosing the relaxed atmosphere and aura I get from my casual raiding guild.
I’m not afraid to crack a joke in /ra. I’m not afraid to speak up over Vent. I’m not afraid that if I screw up once, that I’ll never be forgiven or invited ever again.
While I desperately love my guild, love the family that I have there, love the friends I have there, people just aren’t committed like I wish they were. Karazhan is on farm status for those select groups. Gruul’s isn’t even near there. Zul’Aman? Sure, we had one group going… But there are many of us that will never see it because people don’t commit themselves to take the time, get the gear, and know their characters from the inside out.
While I will never claim to be the best, I like to think of myself as a decent hunter. No. I don’t have the best gear. No. I don’t crunch numbers the way I should. (I’m not smart enough for it anyways.) Yes. I could be 10x better if I wanted to. But I go on the game to relax and enjoy myself, not to beat myself over the head because I don’t have this or because I can’t do something like I should.
That’s why I will be stuck to a more casual guild in WoW for as long as I play. There is no one out there, at least that I know of, that can be casual and hardcore all at the same time. That and I love my guild far too much to ever leave them. They are my family. They laugh, cry, make jokes, and are there for me through and through. I could never ask for any more than that.
While I wish our raiding was more specified and picky… I won’t ever find a good enough reason to leave them. (At least I hope not.)
Double Sided Hunters last blog post..Leveling and Raiding, Yep!
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[...] – bookmarked by 3 members originally found by elefantito on 2008-07-23 More Casual/Hardcore Musings http://www.thehuntersmark.net/2008/07/08/more-casualhardcore-musings/ – bookmarked by 3 members [...]
“You cannot change a guild you join.”
I know this is an old post, but I just wanted to thank you for writing it anyway, even if it is months late. This is something I really needed to read right now.
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KC — Glad you enjoyed it. Some in-game lessons are timeless, really, and often aren’t discussed on most contemporary resource sites. I’m happy you found it helpful.
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