How a Hunter Starts Raiding
I was recently asked in an email:
I’m just wondering if you could put up a guide which explains what stats you need to start raiding and what the best raiding spec is
Having walked many young hunters in my various guilds through this very process over and over again, I had thought that it was something I’d already posted about. Clearly, I was wrong, and remiss in my duties. So, I’d like to take this opportunity to go back and describe how a hunter gets ready to raid in TBC.
Let’s start with base stats for beginning Karazhan, since that’s a pretty easy place to start. Many guilds that are already raiding, or in the process of starting to raid will likely post what they consider to be their minimum stats to get a raid invite (I know I did this when I was an acting Raid Leader/Class Officer.) So, before I spout some numbers at you–check your guild’s web site. Check with your Raid Leader and/or Class Lead. These are the people who will ultimately decide if you’re ready or not, and are thus a more reliable source of information that will apply directly to you. My advice, however, would be: don’t pester them about it all the time. (Peppering their inboxes with “Am I ready now?”, “How ’bout now?”, “Now?”, “How ’bout now?” will certainly make them less likely to be helpful and forth-coming.) Simply sending them a quick note asking them to either a) direct you to a reference for minimum stat requirements that they use, or b) and armory link and some advice for improvement should be more than sufficient.
For those of you that may not have such resources available to you for whatever reason, allow me to give you some specifics to start from.
Before I quote you some numbers, though, let me make a few suggestions:
1. Work though level 70 instances
This is important for a number of reasons. First, these instances (and crafting, in some cases) are where you’re going to find the gear you’ll need. I can already assure you, your Auction House blues and quest greens will not cut it. Those items are great to get you started doing level 70 instances, but, in them, you’ll be made mincemeat of in a raid. The second reason why its important to hit up the instances is that it will give you valuable experience. If you do instances with guildies, you’re given an opportunity to learn how they work. It will show you their varying styles of play, how they organize strategies, and how they deal with pressure and surprises. By doing these instances, you’re building up a rapport with these people and learning to work as a team as opposed to working as individuals. In a raid environment, a rapport with your teammates can mean the difference between a wipe and a boss-kill.
Here’s an example:
When TBC first came out, I was in a guild called Sinister Pack. 5 members of SP (myself included) consistently grouped together to complete quests and instances as we leveled, and then went on to farm the level 70 instances to get our dungeon sets to start Karazhan. It was usually the same five people working together, every day. We got into a rhythm. Targets were always marked the same way, we each came to understand the others’ habits, and how each of us instinctively responded to emergencies. Once we and our guildmates had decent gear, we started Karazhan. This was well before there were many online resources for boss strategies and trash clears, so for a lot of it we were just learning as we went.
Enter Attumen trash.
On our way to Attumen, we accidentally pulled two groups of trash. (Doesn’t seem so awful these days, having pulled all the trash at once, deliberately, on numerous occasions, but at the time it was rough on epic-less teams still learning the place.) Of course, the tanks struggled to sort out who was going after what, and the healers were spamming their respective heals for all they were worth. Naturally, a mob was missed in the confusion, and went straight for a healer.
Now, in most cases, that would’ve been a wipe.
Lucky for us, the healer that the mob went for was the very same healer I’d been running instances with for weeks. Both of us knew what to do, and knew, also, that the other was on their toes.
Over our speakers, we both hear the oh-so-delightful and reassuring sound of a trap being triggered.
A quick glance proves it: there’s a big, undead horsey, rearing and poised to strike down a poor, unsuspecting clothie… frozen solid.
It didn’t need to be said over vent: “Get a trap ready!” or, “Trap over here!” By the time the words would have been uttered, and the directive followed, a raider would be lying dead and helpless on the gatehouse floor. The healer and I had long established a rapport, an unspoken bond of trust. I will save you when no one else can. It’s my job. That is why, without fail, if my trap cooldown is up and I’m not using it for something else (chain trapping), I’ve got a trap sitting at a healer’s feet, and they know it will always be there if they need it. The priest already knew this from long-standing precedent. When that horse charged him, he didn’t so much as flinch. Because he knew his hunter was there for him. That’s our job.
2. Make a List, Check it Twice
This actually will be a general guideline that will stay with you for the rest of your WoW career (and likely into any subsequent games you play). Have a list somewhere, written down or typed out (not just bookmarked links, either), of stuff you want.
I’m a big fan of lists (as any long-time visitor to this site is well aware). I write down everything. I have piles of notebooks filled with WoW info strewn around my desk, and pens lying everywhere.
Any time you’re about to start working on something new, be that level 70 instances, heroics, raids, whatever, know what your goals are ahead of time. Know what it is you’re after. It will save you, and your party/raid-members time. You won’t have to sit there hmm-ing and haw-ing over a drop, and you can move on to the next thing that much sooner. Wish Lists are your new best friend.
Get out a fresh piece of paper, or a new notepad document, and hit up some online resources. Check The Armory and use the “Find an Upgrade” feature. Write down what you find. Head over to WoWHead and check loot tables for content you’re currently doing, or will do in the near future. Skim through the bosses and write down items that look useful. (You can always go back and edit your list later, after you’ve compared things.) Also, Kaliban’s Class Loot List is another great resource that’s trimmed a lot of the fat for you.
Get familiar with the items that are currently available to you that you may need and where to find them. Get familiar with the items that will be available to you soon and how to get them.
3. It Isn’t all About Gear
Honey, you just found a new way to fill your free time. Farming. Farming for meat, fish, herbs, and all kinds of other goodies. Welcome to raiding! Consumables will simultaneously irritate and delight you. They can be a pain in the butt to farm (so, if you’re independently wealthy, you may just want to hit up the Auction House), but they can give you that extra edge to push you through content.
Get out another piece of paper (or notepad doc), and make, you guessed it, another list. Write down consumables: buff foods, pet buff foods, flasks, elixirs, and potions. Write down the materials it takes to make them. Soon, you’ll know this list like the back of your hand. This list is, essentially, your Pre-Flight Checklist of things you’ll need to bring with you to every raid.
As a (former) Raid Leader, a list of consumables was a requirement I had for every one of my raiders. If we got to a boss, and I noticed you didn’t have a “Well Fed” and/or elixir/flask buff going, I took note. It said to me that you couldn’t be bothered to make sure you were prepared ahead of time. It said to me: “This person wants epics, but isn’t willing to go the extra mile to get them.” It told me the person was lazy. I don’t take lazy people to raids.
Now, having talked your ear off (I’m all about teaching a man to fish, rather than just giving him one, what can I say?), lets get to the specifics you were looking for.
Pre-Raid Gear Checklist
The best (read: easiest) place to start is your dungeon 3 set. This set is a great place to start, not only because the stats (and sockets) are well-rounded, but also because it will take you through several level 70 instances to get your feet wet.
- [item]Beast Lord Cuirass[/item] - The Botanica (Warp Splinter)
- [item]Beast Lord Handguards[/item] - Shattered Halls (Warchief Kargath Bladefist)
- [item]Beast Lord Helm[/item] - The Mechanar (Pathaleon the Calculator)
- [item]Beast Lord Leggings[/item] - The Steamvault (Warlord Kalithresh)
- [item]Beast Lord Mantle[/item] - The Steamvault (Warlord Kalithresh)
Having all of these pieces (or, at the very least, 4/5 pieces) will be a great start.
Now, I listed those items first because they’re the easiest place to start. But, the most important item you get by far will be your ranged weapon. Here are a list of possible ranged weapons to work towards before starting Karazhan:
- [item]31303[/item] - Easily purchased on the AH for about 30g
- [item]31072[/item] - Cipher of Damnation quest reward (SMV)
- [item]27987[/item] - The Black Morass (Chrono Lord Deja)
- [item]Emberhawk Crossbow[/item] - The Arcatraz (Wrath-Scryer Soccothrates)
- [item]Truestrike Crossbow[/item] - Reputation Vendor (Shattered Sun Offensive - Revered)
- [item]Consortium Blaster[/item] - Reputation Vendor (The Consortium - Revered)
- [item]Ornate Khorium Rifle[/item] - Engineering
- [item]Telescopic Sharprifle[/item] - The Mechanar (Pathaleon the Calculator)
- [item]Wrathfire Hand-Cannon[/item] - Shadow Labyrinth (Grandmaster Vorpil)
Some other things you may want to look for:
- [item]Hellforged Halberd[/item] - Reputation (Honor Hold)
- [item]Crystalforged War Axe[/item] - World Drop
Both seem to be popular choices, depending on your spec. There are, of course, other great weapons that you can find while going after your d3 set pieces, which you’ll likely find when doing a “Find an Upgrade” search.
One thing I will say for sure though, is you will need to pick up the [item]Hourglass of the Unraveller[/item] from Black Morass. It’s the best trinket of that nature that you’ll find until SSC. The [item]Abacus of Violent Odds[/item] from The Mechanar is another good good choice, particularly for BM hunters.
Now, I’m sure you’re wondering “Lass, why are you giving me a gear list when I asked for base stats?”. The answer is simple: posted minimum stat requirements vary from source to source. The gear to get you there will not. The general rule of thumb seems to be that, as long as the majority of your gear is solid instance/reputation/etc blues with only a green or two left to phase out, you’re probably ready. This is why I’ve stressed the importance of doing your level 70 instances. Before I ever set foot in Karazhan, I was exalted with the Sha’tar from running The Botanica to get my d3 chest piece.
Base Stats
You’ve been waiting this whole time to just read the end goal, not necessarily how to get there, haven’t you? I know, I know. I’m way too verbose on this subject. Okay, then. Here you go:
Regardless of Spec
Health: 8000
Mana: 6000
Hit: 75
Beast Mastery
Attack Power: 1500
Crit: 17.5%
Marksmanship
Attack Power: 1700
Crit: 18%
Survival
Agility: 600
Attack Power: 1700
Crit: 20%
Talent Spec
The tree you choose should depend entirely on which you prefer. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. But, there are definite talents from each tree that are a “must have” for raiding. Let’s take a look at those talents. (Note: I have deliberately left some talents out. This is meant to be a list of talents you absolutely must have for raiding, or talents you definitely should not have.)
Beast Mastery
DO: Focused Fire, Unleashed Fury, Ferocity, Frenzy, Ferocious Inspiration, Bestial Wrath/The Beast Within
DO NOT: Bestial Swiftness
Marksmanship
DO: Lethal Shots, Improved Hunter’s Mark, Go for the Throat, Mortal Shots, Ranged Weapon Specialization, Trueshot Aura, Master Marksman
DO NOT: Concussive Barrage, Improved Stings
Survival
DO: Clever Traps, Surefooted, Killer Instinct, Lightning Reflexes, Expose Weakness, Thrill of the Hunt, Master Tactician, Readiness
DO NOT: Deterrence, Counterattack
There are talents for PvP and soloing, and there are talents for raiding. Know which is which, and what they’re good for. For Beast Mastery hunters, the big thing is to increase your overall damage output by increasing the damage dealt by your pet. For Marksmanship hunters, it’s all about putting up big numbers. (Also, as an MM hunter, its your responsibility to make sure you’ve got Imp Mark for the melee crowd.) Survival hunters: your bread and butter is your Expose Weakness buff. Stack your agility and crit, and increase the entire raid’s overall dps.
I realize I took the scenic route to get to the point, but as I’ve said in the past, it’s not just about memorizing facts. It’s about understanding how the game works and why things are done the way they are so you can come to your own conclusions in the future without having to rely on someone else to puzzle it out for you. Having a deeper understanding of your class sets you apart from the crowd, which, for hunters, is a tall order. Hunters are by far the most populace class in the game, and no one will think you’re anything but a garden variety “huntard” unless you can prove otherwise, and that means being able to apply deductive reasoning and theorycrafting in diverse situations. The hard work does pay off in the end, though.
Good luck in Karazhan and beyond!
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Comments
DO NOT: Bestial Swiftness, Animal Handler
Bestial Swiftness is something I totally understand, but why no Animal Handler? Of course nobody cares about the mounted speed increase, but it also increases my pet’s chance to hit, and it shouldn’t be too bad for a BM hunter to have, as the pet is a significant part of my DPS.
Or am I wrong?
Animal Handler is _essential_ for a raiding BM hunter. It’s the only way to increase your pet’s chance to hit. Having the pet hit more is huge for a BM hunter. Ignore the mounted speed increase; that’s not the important part of that talent.
Also, you’ll probably only need 4/5 points in Frenzy. That’s generally enough to keep that proc up all the time (again, assuming 2 points in Animal Handler).
Animal Handler is an excellent talent for the pet hit increase alone. The mounted speed increase is simply icing on the cake.
Animal Handler I can see leavin’ out for plain ol’ level 70 instances, but I wouldn’t raid without it. More pet hits = more Ferocious Inspiration, and he misses enough as it is…
While raiding as BM, I didn’t have Animal Handler, and my pet easily did 30-38% of the damage I was doing. Starting Kara at the time, I was easily doing ~600dps.
Apparently, raiding without Animal Handler works just fine. 
haha, i was going to comment about animal handler, but the ppl above me did quite well.
As for deterrence, its not such a bad choice considering your options in that talent tier. You shouldn’t find yourself 1:1 with a mob while raiding, but if you ever do, hitting that deterrence button could save your life for a few seconds, and sometimes that’s all you need.
RE: Animal Handler
It’s like for survival not taking surefooted because you do not need the % increase in snare resist. You do not need to be hit capped, but it certainly does help.
I don’t know how many 1% wipes that have been avoided because of deterrence … that 10 sec hunter tank has been a god send, especially in 5 mans.
*shrug* Sure, it _can_ work without Animal Handler. But it works better with it. There are plenty of useless raid talents in Beasts (Catlike Reflexes FTL), but Animal Handler isn’t one of them.
Animal Handler for BM is (to beat a dead horse) required. 2/2 will provide an additional 4% hit for your pet; on a recent WWS, my pet missed his auto attack 7.3% of the time (total auto attack damage of ~79K). Without Animal Handler you could expect him to miss ~11% of the time, which roughly translated (on this boss fight) to an additional 5K damage. While it may not seem like a lot, fewer misses = more hits = more crits = more uptime for FI, Frenzy, etc. To recommend a BM raiding build without AH is bad advice.
[...] The Hunter’s Mark » How a Hunter Starts Raiding has good advice - especially as I seem to be moving my hunter up into being my secondary raiding toon. [...]
Frankly, I would replace Animal Handler in your DO NOT list with Spirit Bond. What a waste of talent points, at least for PVE, ugh. And I see way too many hunters running around instance stones with that Godforsaken buff.
^ And frankly, although you COULD raid without AH, there’s no reason not to. 4% chance to hit means AT LEAST 4% more damage output, and those benefits trickle back to not only you for sheer numbers, but the rest of your group as well, since AH goes a long way towards achieving 100% FI uptime.
Glad to see my hours spent writing the rest of the article were entirely wasted because so many people could only focus on one point in which their opinion differs. 
I didn’t mean for my comment to come off like that sorry 
When I wrote it I hadn’t read the other couple comments that had already been posted. So I didn’t know I was being repetitive. Your guide is of course full of very good tips, as usual!
Glad to see my hours spent writing the rest of the article were entirely wasted because so many people could only focus on one point in which their opinion differs.
Yeah, that’s the way the internet works. People are totally willing to ignore the bigger picture in order to debate the minor points. You pretty much have to be 100% correct, or not bother at all.
Keep in mind, there are also more constructive ways to respond to criticism than to be hostile and ignore the greater wisdom of the hunter community and post image macros at people like me who have been reading your blog for nearly a year! Talent selection for any kind of hunter is a big deal! Though your guide is mostly succinct and well-written, as all of your guides are, I should hope that you, as a raiding hunter yourself, would WANT to be corrected if you were spreading any kind of misinformation to those in the hunter community who are just getting started on that path.
Sade — My response was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek. (Which is why it was put the way it was.) Relax. I understand that the intrnt is srs bsnss, but sometimes you just need to laugh. 
Mood is hard to read through text, Lass. I kinda flew off the handle too, I suppose. I, for the record, count myself among your biggest fans… just completely immune to tongues being held against cheeks, apparently. x_x
Hehe, all is well. I realized, in retrospect, that tone of voice doesn’t lend itself well to an entirely text-based medium, and realized, too, that I was at least partly to blame for the misunderstanding.
Thanks for the post and discussion. I recently specced BM/MM for 25 man raiding and completely overlooked Animal Handler.
I made a hunter, leveled him to 70 in 6 days and got my full S1 in 8. If you are leveling, I went into Kara twice so far, and never had a problem (died once, although the group wiped numerous times). I would recommend the S1 gear head to toe.
The resilence and stam are essential to your survivability, and a ravager pet with kill command and cobra strikes can pull aggro off a tank with intimidation, if healer needs to catch up on healing, but your pet will die most likely. I’ve had my pet main tanking and uber healers keeping it up after a tank has fallen as well.
As for Magisters, this gear isn’t the greatest, and you can survive 3-4 hits.
In either place, I still hold well in dps, usually #1 or #2 .
This build http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/hunter/talents.html?tal=0520300152501224210510550201205000000000000000000000000000000000
is pretty good, and can be tweaked to fit your play style.
if you want to get into raiding fast, and not look like a fool, get the pvp set, either get good traps, or a pet that can give you time to correct your little problem.
I must say this guide has been pretty helpful to me, I’ve read over it two or three times now and bookmarked it for future reference. I’m pretty close to 70 and actually have a good idea of where I’m going now because of your guide. Thanks and keep up the good work
My question is directed towards your MM talent suggestions. I realize that many Hunters look at stings with disdain… but why NOT take Imp. Stings, other than for this reason? I do use stings fairly often when running instances (I’ve only done Kara once, so don’t be too harsh :smile:). I can only see Imp. Stings as an increase to DPS, if minor. So if I get rid of it, what would I use those points for instead?
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Norgannon&n=Hoenir
There’s my build, I’d welcome any suggestions, I’m trying to respec to be more useful to my guild anyway…
Thanks!
ravnoss last blog post..Ian’s Tweets from 2008-08-13
Animal handler is actually a must have talent for a raiding BM hunter Not for the increased mount speed (which is nice) but for the increased pet chance to hit. It is the only way in the game to increase pet hit rating. Since your pet will be doing ~25-30% of your dps as BM, it really helps. If you need an extra point in you tree to fill out animal handler, the math says you can only do 4/5 frenzy and it will still be up almost all of the time:
http://forums.tkasomething.com/showthread.php?t=12152
Otherwise, great guide.