The man makes an excellent point…
I’d like to point out a post by BRK, because I think it bears mentioning.
And, my response to the post:
Isn’t it amazing what people will risk just because they underestimate the abilities of a hunter?
I’ve encountered pretty much every bad ending you described in this post. (Although most of the time the full-on wipe is avoided with a few well-placed Freezing Traps and pet off-tanking…)
The majority of the time, I find myself on “Squishie Watch” (as I’ve come to call it). The rest of the group pulls however they like (sheep, tank, whatever), and it’s apparently become my job to keep an eye on stray mobs with a taste for cloth.
More and more recently, I’ve found myself laying Freezing Traps at the feet of cloth-wearers, pet off-tanking the other strays, and then DPSing the crap out of the “main mob” to get that one out of the way so we can finish off the rest of the scampering evil-doers.
I don’t think most people realize just how much hunters do while in groups. Which, I suppose, is how it should be if the hunter’s doing their job. With so many pulling mistakes waiting to happen (provided the hunter isn’t used to pull), the fact that so many wipes are avoided is really a testament to how well a hunter actually does their job and pays attention to what’s going on around them.
Case in point… the only times we’ve wiped in Blood Furnace (in the room right before Keli’dan–with all the Fel Guardians or whatever they are) is when the mage sheep pulls, and pulls too many for me to keep track of and crowd control at once.
Generally, the scene goes something like this: the mage sheep-pulls. The tanks run to the bottom of the ramp to grab aggro, but can’t hold on to all of the Fel fellas, and they make a mad-dash for the mage. I lay a Freezing Trap to take one of them out of the fight for a bit, send Pasha after another to keep that one busy, and then start a shot rotation on (one of) the others headed after the Squishie. From there, it’s pretty much chaos, and a prayer by all that we make it through alive.
[...]
And did anyone think to suggest that the hunter should pull? No.
/sigh
I resign myself to Squishie Duty. For now…
That having been said, I’d like to extrapolate on this a bit more, since (to hunters) it’s a very big deal.
First… why isn’t it just second-nature common sense kinda stuff to people to let hunters pull?
I mean… as BRK and others have pointed out countless times, in countless ways, it’s sorta what hunters are built for. Of all the classes, we’re the most adaptable when it comes to aggro and crowd control, and as mail-wearers we’re better able to take a hit when/if things go awry than all but two of the classes in the game. And of those two classes who have a higher AC-potential than we do… neither have adequate aggro and crowd control capabilities.
So, with those things in mind, why aren’t people lining up to beg hunters to come on their instance runs, so they’ll have someone to do well-controlled pulls?
Honestly, I have no idea.
Well, that’s not technically true. I have an inkling as to why this might be the case. But, it’s such a thread-bare excuse, that I have to assume it can’t be right. If it is… well, that’s just sad (and woefully ignorant).
My suspicion is that people avoid having hunters pull because they’ve been burned by incapable hunters in the past. It’s common knowledge that most hunters have gotten a bad rap from a few blithering idiots. (The bastard children of the class, if you will.) As I’ve mentioned in the past… hunters can be either a bane or a blessing to your party, and there’s little chance of any middle ground between the two. If you’ve got a good hunter in your party… chances are you hardly even notice he/she is there (aside from a few Ice Cubed mobs, and green skulls floating off of mobs giving them away…). If you’ve got a crappy hunter in your party… it’s painfully obvious they’re present. And you wish they weren’t. So… if people are only noticing the bad hunters, it’s no wonder people put no faith in them.
This is really the only plausible explanation I can come up with as to why groups wouldn’t prefer having hunters pull. And it’s a pretty flimsy excuse, at that. Although, in fairness to other classes, they seem to simply be following the “Fool me once…” credo, and you can’t entirely blame them for that. Who wants to suffer through wipe after wipe, just because some well-meaning hunter thinks other classes should just sit back and give us a chance already?!
So, it seems we’ve found ourselves in a catch-22, hunters.
Well, now what?
If you expect people to give up this paranoid mindset, and give hunters back their birthright—pulling—then we have to show them what we’re made of, and restore the masses’ faith in our abilities.
What does that mean, exactly? Well… I’m still in the process of figuring that out, to be honest. A large part of it is what I call Squishie Duty. Start with the cloth-wearers, hunters. Their affections will be the easiest to win over. How many times has a priest said to you, “Thanks! I thought I was a goner that time!”? This is only the beginning. Continue diligently protecting squishies, and you’ll quickly garner yourself a reputation for greatness in their eyes. Nothing wipes an instance quicker than a dead healer. And if you’re the one standing between an extra heal or a wipe, you’ll be a hero. (At least to the squishie… because frankly, they’re probably the only one that’ll even notice. At least at first.) Once you’ve got the affections of the squishies firmly in place, the affections of others will surely follow.
Diligence, hunters. Diligence.
I know, we shouldn’t really have to prove ourselves to the masses. But, it seems—thanks to a few bad apples—that we do. Let’s get our good reputations back, folks. One squishie at a time…
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I think you make a very excellent point! (And it’s probably one I should’ve brought up myself, lol.)
I think it’s very true that “solo” hunters are by far the majority of the class. Like you, I spent a vast majority of my leveling alone. And also like you, when I did finally start doing group stuff, I found myself hanging back and watching, taking my que from other group members until I felt comfortable enough with the group dynamic to utilize more of my strengths.
A couple examples spring immediately to my mind, that are directly in keeping with what you’re talking about. Myself and another hunter I know (and used to quest with fairly often) had never done group stuff or instances until we were about 50-ish (and got our Hunter quest to do Sunken Temple). I mean, I had occassionally run people through Deadmines and Stockades, but I don’t think that counts. I had also done a couple Zul’Farrak runs… but those ZF runs were essentially the first real “group” runs I’d ever done. (Thankfully ZF is fairly straight-forward, so it wasn’t difficult to figure out how things should be done.) But after ZF, I found myself moving on to bigger things like BRD when I hit 52, and then Strat dead and Scholo when I hit 58. BRD, Strat and Scholo were a bit of a shock to me, to be honest. They were the first times I had to actually plan ahead, and understand the different class roles when working as a group toward a common objective. Thankfully, my first Strat dead run, I had another, much more experienced hunter with me that I was able to watch and learn from (and thankfully, I pick up on things very quickly just from watching how someone else does things) so my adjustment to the group dynamic was fairly smooth and fluid. But, not all hunters are as lucky as I was.
So…. long story short (rofl), I’m in complete agreement with the points you’ve made.
The class is an extremely rich and complex one, and you can spend months and months finding new ways to do things, and new techniques to try. That’s part of why I love playing a hunter. And when group stuff gets tedious, I can always run off on my own for a bit and explore (like my visit to Nagrand), or just grind away on mobs for a while, until I’m ready to be social again.
It’s a great class, and I enjoy plumbing the depths of our abilities, both for soloing and group stuff. And I get a lot of enjoyment now from passing on the things I’ve learned as I’ve progressed to others who are still feeling their way around.
Being a hunter can be a little frustrating sometimes, but in the long run, it’s definitely worth it. 
Well I guess that makes me a rarity, yes I’ve solo’d alot in my 54 levels but i’ve also done many, many dungeons. I was the first hunter in my guild, the majority of the others were: pallys, mages & warriors. But now that i’ve been there for several months some of the ones who have lvl 60+ mains have made alt hunters. I can’t count how many times i’ve heard them exclaim how much they really enjoy playing their “new” alt rather than their main. Yes we are probably the best solo’ers in the game, however, the only way for groups to actually have trust in us is to show them what we can do early on. So many people rely on the mage to pull (because that’s how they’ve been doing it, since the majority of hunters are out soloing). one of the first things i do when joining a group of ppl that i may not know too well is plainly state that “I” will be doing the pulling! i allow them to state their qualms, if they have any, but after the first few mins they come to understand and better appriciate the hunter’s role in groups. Basically i just wanted to say that we ALL must do our part in getting the hunters back in our rightful roles. That means do group dungeon runs, learn what you should and should not do as a hunter. and finally read this and BRK’s forums.. i’ve come to find out that they are both enjoyable to read and very knowledgeable in what they talk about. take care
Taudok & Jynx - Tanaris Server - Apocalypse Now
Hehe, thanks Taudok!
I’m glad you came to visit! The points you’ve made are extremely valid. Hunters definitely have to take some of the responsibility to show that we’re capable of playing our designated roles.
I agree with all the above points made, thing i’ve now found after hitting 70 with fairly decent gear nothing special (spec’d to BM for the better now) I can dps like crazy, on a good few occasions i’ve annoyed many mages and locks not to mention MM hunters in the group (hehe a BM hunter with trueshot aura is bliss i can tell you) by having an overall higher damage, in knowing this I hang tight if they want me to pull thats fine, if they don’t thats fine too, either way i do mass damage as well, I’ve found i can get invited to a group resonably easy as I just don’t mess up.
Funny you say about protecting the squihies among us… that depends imo… I tend to look after those that look after me namely the priests… it’s rare a lock attracts aggro as he does hit hard but afflict it instead mages however, if they decide to unleash their big crits everytime a mob is pulled I just let them have some fun, they learn very quickly not to do it again, seems to be getting rarer that i find myself in a group with them for this reason, they’re becoming the new “stupid hunters” which works for me : )
Either way my point is keep yourself to assisting unless someone requests that you do, and that misdirection spell… it rules.. hit F2/3/4/5 hit misdirection and your on to a winner!
I have to say that when im not playing my alt hunter I normally run around as one of the so-called “squishies”. Normally I have enough common sense to watch my agro so as not to have to be saved, but to tell you the truth, its hard sometime not to blow every single CD i have just to see the huge numbers flash above the mobs head.
AS for the hunter being last to be picked for a roup, I know with my guild and server, reputation goes along way. IF you are percieved as a scrub, you will never get a group, HOWEVER if you have talent, due to the CC/DPS ability hunters bring, you can easily get a group.
I think part of the reason for the Hunter being under appreciated in groups and also there being so many “Bad Hunters” is the simple fact that the class is so effective at soloing that there are many hunters that level with little or no experience in groups. It doesn’t matter where in Azeroth you go you see hunters running around everywhere but look at the average guild roster. I bet the least represented class will be hunters. I myself was over level 40 with my hunter before I ever went into an instance or gained any experience with playing as part of a group. Although I was extremely effective at soloing and could regularly handle several mobs a couple levels above me at onetime I had know real understanding of group tactics other than the “Group” of my pet and I. I don’t believe I am a real rarity in this respect from the comments I would get from other classes in groups during 40 to 50 levels.
Priest who panicked because they have never seen feign death used before is a prime example.
Since then it has been an process of education for me and patience. I have done a lot of hanging back and letting others take the lead often times when it is apparent to me that I could be more effective and the run we are making could go much smoother if my abilities got utilized like they could. I’ve learned a lot although I don’t claimed to be the Uber Hunter. At the same time I have over time been able to build a reputation with those I’ve been able to group with and “educate” them also as well to my class’s value’s to a group. Currently I’m at 61 and find that I often get a whisper and an invite to group within minutes of logging on. Actually this has resulted in my leveling being slowed down do to reworking dungeons and quest’s I’ve already completed to help fill out groups for other. I’m not complaining about this, although I’m not an overly social person I am enjoying the game more since moving on from the “Solo Grind”.